Episode 12: Ron Dudley, Street Sense Media Newspaper Seller

In this episode, I speak with Ron Dudley. Ron is a man of faith who has learned great lessons from the hardships in his life like losing his mother at a young age, being homeless, and currently living in “the ghetto,” as he says. He has been selling the Street Sense Media Newspaper on the streets of Washington D.C. for 7 years and published a book of his poetic rap lyrics called, My Science Project. Ron is a man with little financial means, but because of his generous heart is a man rich in wisdom and goodwill. He shares his passion for sharing a smile, being non-judgmental, and building community wherever you are. 

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Guest Info

Ron Dudley, has been writing hip-hop music and poetry most of his life, and is also known by his performance name of “Pookanu”. Raised in the countryside of Maryland, Ron moved to Washington DC, as an adult, and was eventually evicted from his home there. In spite of working three jobs, he was still unable to afford rent in one of the richest cities in the U.S. 

Still housing insecure, Ron is renting a room in Washington, DC. He recently wrote a book entitled, My Science Project, published by Foundation Ipsen, and is in the process of creating his second book, to be published by Ipsen. 

Ron, the father of three children, dreams of having his own key and a lease. For further information, or to help Ron, contact M.J. Tierney – mjtma59@gmail.com – or venmo @MJ-Tee for donations to help make Ron’s dream come true!

Show Notes

For more information on Ron, listen to this episode: Episode 4: Philanthropist MaryJudith Tierney, Serving Through Education.

To help Ron, contact M.J. Tierney – mjtma59@gmail.com – or venmo @MJ-Tee for donations.

Excerpt Ron reads from his book My Science Project from the poem “Code of Science.”

They say you were born with a number. You gonna to die with a number. It’s hard to live through the winter. Hard to survive through the summer. Any day can be the day when the clock stop ticking. My therapist died when he stopped paying attention. A murderer, a killer, prayed to God for his freedom. I guess he prayed so much one day they finally freed him. What is a brain without a heart? What is a heart without a brain? What is love without a stain? What is a loss without a gain? See, it’s a code, it’s a pattern with nature and balance. See, I was told I was slow and mentally challenged. I was told I would never accomplish a thing. I was told I would always amount to nothing. See zero is still a number on this lottery ticket. I mastered the code of science when I finally hit it. I guess God answered questions in mysterious ways. God, please, give me science for the rest of my days.” – Code of Science.


JK: Hello, and welcome to the You Are A Philanthropist Podcast. This is Episode 12, and today, we’re talking with Ron Dudley. Ron Dudley is a writer FOR the Street Sense Media Newspaper, and he wrote a book, My Science Project. Ron is a friend to Mary Judith Tierney, who was on Episode 4.

JK: Ron, thank you so much for being here today.

RD: It’s no problem.

JK: I’m eager to hear about your life because MJ [Tierney] mentioned that you sold her a newspaper on the street, and that’s how she started meeting you?

RD: Yeah. I was selling the homeless newspaper for about seven years now.

JK: Great.

RD: Yes, you would pass me every day, and I guess she saw– just how outwardly respectful I was, and started showing me some love, and it’s been awesome.

JK: She’s got a lot of love to give, doesn’t she?

RD: Yeah, she does. It’s awesome, yeah. Definitely.

JK: And do you meet a lot of people like MJ?

RD: Yeah, a lot, a lot. Yeah.

JK: Do you have a lot of friends that you’ve met?

RD: Yeah, a lot. Lot of friends just like her. That’s how I made it this far, is friends, good people.

JK: That’s something MJ’s mentioned to the listeners and I on our prior podcast, on her episode, is that you’ve really built a community by selling that newspaper.

RD: Yeah. I have, I’ve been selling for seven years on. And when I had nothing, that’s what I had is newspaper. So when I was at the bottom, I got with the paper, and it changed my life. Yeah, so, yeah, definitely.

JK: And so by changing your life, I understand now you’re in an apartment?

RD: Well, I’m renting a room. I’m searching for housing. But I’ve been living in my room for about four years now. So I’ve been able to pay my rent and– survive, and take care of my bills, and myself, and my kids, so. I can’t ask for more. I can do the main things I’m supposed to do, that’s what counts.

JK: That’s awesome. And so one of the things MJ mentioned is that you’re a rapper, and your rappers– excuse me, your rap lyrics have become poems. And you wrote a book called the My Science Project. Can you tell me about some of your poems or art? Through rap. Because MJ had this great quote from your Black Lives Matter poem called, “My Life is Your Life, and Your Life is Mine.” What does that mean to you?

RD: It’s like, if you live and die for me, I’ll do the same for you.

JK: That’s beautiful.

RD: It’s like, there’s no– straight to the point. You live and die for me, I’ll do the same for you. And show me back at you. So it’s self-explanatory. It’s just, yeah.

JK: That’s wonderful. And tell me, have you met a lot of people who have been generous with you that you’ve met through your book, or through your selling of the Street Sense Media newspaper?

RD: Yeah. I’ve been selling the newspaper for seven years, and just by writing it– just by selling the newspaper, rain, sleet, snow, that’s how a lot of people realized who I was, and the talent that I had, because they saw me so much. I guess my dedication to the paper, and actually the fact that people read what I wrote, that was the main thing. Because sometimes people support you without reading what you wrote, but people actually read what I wrote, so that’s what made me feel good, and they understood just what I wrote. Sometimes when you write, how people really feel, that’s a good thing. But the newspapers got me the book. Like I said, seven years the newspaper, I’ve been out in front of Trader Joe’s for four years. Yeah, four years selling the newspaper with their– one day I wrote a piece called, “A Tree of Life”– I wrote a piece called “A Tree of Life” because where I’m renting a room at, there’s a tree outside of the back of the apartment, there’s a tree that’s there. It got struck by lightning, it’s been through so much and it just reminds me of life, and every time I see it, even though I live in the ghetto, every time I walk out back and see that tree, it makes me realize, “Okay, things not as bad in this world as you– things not bad.” Because the tree had been through everything. It represents life.

JK: It sounds like you’re a very optimistic person.

RD: Yeah. Definitely.

JK: And that’s something on my recent podcast, Paul Ott had mentioned, about how important optimism is to being a philanthropist, and showing kindness and generosity to people. Is optimism your fuel? Is showing kindness your form of charity?

RD: It’s so funny, it’s the person that I really am. I’m a kind person. We attract other kind people. So I just appreciate people and I never take things for granted. Do you know what I mean? And once I realized love is the key, and not hate, then I can run with that.

JK: That’s beautiful. How old were you when you realized love is the key?

RD: I was just young. I was young because I lost my mom when I was a kid. So when you lose your mom early, you look at life different. When you lose the mother when you’re young.

JK: Wow, I can’t imagine it.

RD: Yeah. So you always look at life different. But I had an aunt to raise me, so I had somebody to raise me, to get me to here, so at least I did have somebody. Some people don’t have anybody, so. Yeah, so I have to stay optimistic and keep my head above the water because it’s not bad.

JK: That’s beautiful.

RD: It’s never as bad as you think it is.

JK: That’s so interesting. And sometimes in retrospect is when we realize that what was difficult was actually working for us. Would you agree?

RD: Yeah. It’s like a lesson learned.

JK: Yes.

RD: You learned something. You learned something. It’s like, “Okay what did you learn? Did you learn a lesson? Okay.” If you learned a lesson, then the same thing won’t happen to you.

JK: And it’s not failure, because you turned whatever hardship or failure you had into something new, and something you can transform.

RD: Yeah. That’s what on a Street Sense. it kept me alive, the paper, because whenever I didn’t go to work, bad things happened. This is like Street Sense and selling newspapers is positive, because when you live in a certain place, there’s negativity, no matter what. And when you live in certain areas and there’s just negativity. But I tell people, “Just give me Street Sense.” After I lost everything. I just saw just how positive people were, I just am like– that’s what worked for me, being a positive person, being myself. You try being negative, but no, it doesn’t work for me. I’m a positive person. I like positive energy. I like positive people. Just that’s what makes me go to work, just the people. Because people show you love when they don’t have to. Like I said, people be just buying newspaper. They don’t have to read it. They don’t have to know that you are an artist. They don’t have to know that you have a book. They don’t have to come to your shows. They don’t have to support you. They don’t have to care, but people care, so. And I was taught to care, too, so I care. That’s another thing, too. I care. I really genuinely care about the people. I care about the customers, so definitely.

JK: That’s beautiful. How many people, and do you know them, that contribute to the newspaper?

RD: Over a hundred. I’ve been selling the paper for seven years now, so over a hundred. I know people by name, so. I tell people, “When you know people by name, it’s so different.” It’s so different when you know–when the community know you by name. You know what I mean? And when you know a customer by name, that’s not easy. It lets you know if people really care about you because they don’t have to. People take the time to– out of their time to show you love and take the time to talk to you, buy your paper, read your work, tell the people about you, introduce their family members to you. People don’t have to do that. It’s just business and boom then back to work. So work and home, when people are letting you in their lives, they don’t have to do that. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah.

JK: That’s such an important point, that it’s not just business. And I can tell that when you’re writing, you must be very articulate and really want to move from your own– what you’ve learned in your own life and transform it and to share it with others.

RD: Yeah, I do because I know we all go through the same thing no matter high or low. We all go through the same thing. And at the end of the day, we got to eat, sleep, breathe, think, learn, teach, love. That’s the main thing. We got to love. So that’s the main thing is people show me so much love, I have to show them love back. You know what I mean? The community take care of me and my kids. I have to make sure like say I might not be able to feed your kid, but I might get to save your kid from getting hit by a car. You know what I mean?

JK: Yeah.

RD: You know what I mean? Just like–

JK: Yes.

RD: You know what I mean?

JK: Actually, Paul Ott, a couple episodes ago, said the same thing, is that you don’t know strangers, but sometimes, you might need that stranger because they’re just there in the moment you need them.

RD: Right, right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. And so many times, just good morning change, make people– you know what I mean? Just the word good morning and just– good morning. I love good morning. I’m a morning guy because I mean, good afternoon and goodnight is so hard, so there’s like something about saying, “Good morning.” Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. No matter how bad you’re feeling, good morning. A person saying, “Good morning,” that’s a great sign.

JK: That’s such a good point, especially because the morning represents this ability to start fresh, doesn’t it?

RD: Yeah. Yeah. And just being morning guy. I notice after 12 o’clock things change saying, “Good afternoon.”

JK: You get tired.

RD: Yeah. People. All people. There’s just something about– but I’m a morning person. Yeah, like I said– and like I said– I just appreciate the people just speaking, because people don’t have to speak to me. A lot of people rush in and– so you don’t want to judge people because they don’t speak, because you might make the wrong judgment. I learned that because a person was deaf. I thought they had a problem, but they were deaf, you know what I mean? So you think they have a problem, but the whole time they’re deaf. So you never know what people got on their minds or just don’t– don’t judge them, because I always know, if 10 people don’t speak, 100 people are. So you have 90. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? And I tried that. Those people that haven’t spoke for six years, and they mean that, so they’ll rather speak to a dog before they speak to me, but if I worried about that, I wouldn’t be still selling the paper. They’ll be in control of me, so I still speak to them, even though I know they don’t speak. You know what I mean? So…

JK: That’s amazing.

RD: So I’m going to still speak even though, you know what I mean? So I still speak.

JK: That’s beautiful.

RD: Because coming to work makes me feel good. It makes me feel happy. If you don’t speak and I try to focus on that, it could bring me down. If I’m down then everybody could be down. You never know. So it’s uplifting. I just want to be uplifted and uplifting people too. But I know just a good morning can take you far. A good word, a positive attitude, and being real too. It’s just being real. And like I said, I still sold the paper when I didn’t make any money. That’s how I knew I loved it. I thought, okay, when you love something, if you do it and don’t care about the money. And like I said, a lot of times you got people with cups, you got panhandlers around you. I had to get in the panhandlers shoes. You know what I mean? I had to get on the ground with them to see what you are doing. So I had to look at these people. Instead of judging them, I had to really– okay, let me– because I’ve got a place to live. But I do know what it’s like to not have. You know what I mean? So it’s like you don’t want to judge people [by the wrong. You don’t want to say the wrong thing. But still you want to treat people– you want people to treat other people with respect. Not just because you’re shaking a cup. That don’t mean you’re right. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? We want to respect each other.

JK: Awesome. So, Ron, our last guest was actually a nine-year-old girl, and she shared about her inspiration to give to other people, particularly to her local food pantry. And we talked about the power of a smile, and I was particularly thinking of the power of a children’s smile. I’m just curious if you have any thoughts on that.

RD: Man, I love seeing children smile, because if the children is smiling, the parents are smiling most of the time. Because somebody got to teach that. Because, like I said, a smile– because, I tell you, when you’re feeling down, you see a smile on a person’s face again, it uplifts you, and can you lift you up. It can change your– because you might was going to commit suicide that day. But a person said the right thing to make you smile and changed your attitude. Because that’s what I believe. When I’m on my way to work some days, it’s like when you’re walking to work, a person offers you a ride, you say no because you appreciate the fact that you have everything that God gave you. You’re not trying to be disrespectful. You’re just appreciate your feet, because you know people in wheelchairs. So you walk out the door, a person says, “You need a ride?” Like, “No, I’m good.” And then as you’re walking, before you get far, even though you like in the ghetto, somebody outside the ghetto was speaking to you on the way to work. You know what I mean? That doesn’t happen to people in the ghetto. Nobody speaks to you. You know what I mean? You’ve got to keep going. But me, before I get down the hill, “Hey, Ron.” And when I get close to the job, “Hey, Ron.” Three more people. So three good mornings, three positives, and I just– because I might have just home where a person stole from you. A person that you live with might’ve just stole from you. So you need to go to work to stay focused, because the people– you know what I mean? Because you never know what– COVID. You never know what people are going through. People are going through mental problems. But I tell people, “Just walking to work.” When you’ve been working so long and you know people by name, they know you by name. Just walking to work before I get any work. No matter what, I bump into somebody. It’s like, wow, I didn’t know I was going to bump– because sometimes I think about a person that I haven’t seen for years, and as I’m walking to work, bump into them. So just my way- – just work is a positive thing for me. I tell people just selling the newspaper, because selling the newspaper got me the book. That’s why I never stopped selling the newspaper. You can’t forget where you came from. You know what I mean? So the newspaper got me the book, and I love the book, but I can’t forget the newspaper. You know what I mean? So that’s–

JK: Yeah. So when was your book published?

RD: December 18th, last year.

JK: Oh, just last year?

RD: A year ago. A year ago. So I tell people it came out December 18th, and probably a few weeks, not even a month. COVID hit. You know what I mean?

JK: Oh, bad timing.

RD: Yeah, and just like I had a good maybe 30 days as far as my book, in reality. But few days that I had with my book, it got me through, my kids, my family, everything that I had to do. I took care of people that I love. I gave them all I could do because you never know, so you want to do the right thing. But reality, a lot of people don’t know that. When my book came, it was so grateful for a couple of weeks for a month, maybe. Once COVID, January, I’d say February, things just went down. But I never let people know that it went down. You know what I mean? I still got to try because it’s still books. Somebody game gave me free books. You just got to do. So eventually, you’re giving books away and you’re thinking about how you’re going to do on the next book because you still thank God because the little bit of time, you still made more money and was able to take care of your bills. So it’s still a plus. I say, “Okay, COVID came. It went down.” And it almost took my motivation away too. It’s like, “Okay.” You’re going through so much and COVID hit. And like I said, you got people with a cup shaking the cup. It was like you got a newspaper and a book in your hand and you got a work badge. People are not buying anything but you got three people shaking cups. You know what I mean? But you can’t get mad at the people that– You know what I mean? Just got to realize, “Okay, I do–” I to pray, think, strategize, and still showed people love because as long as you guys are giving the people that are shaking cups, I’m going to give them. You know what I mean? Just like I understand. But I say, “Okay, I’m going to try to do it different with the next book.” You know what I mean?

JK: Yeah. Tell me how people can buy your book.

RD: Well, I’m working on my next book. So as far as the publishing, I’m not sure if I’m going to get any more books. You know what I mean?

JK: Yeah.

RD: But I do have good 50 books left. I have about 50 books left but I’m not sure if the publishing company is going to give me any more books – You know what I mean? Because I’m working on the next thing, so. And also, like I said, once the COVID hit, it’s just like when you can’t sell 10 books in a month, is a problem – you know what I mean? – because it’s not on Amazon, anything. It’s just like when you need books, you call the publishing company and they deliver, so. But I’m just thinking maybe second book, it would be on Amazon. Everybody that got, “My Science Project”, they love it. You know what I mean? So that was a blessing. That definitely was a blessing because the book– it was a blessing because I prayed for it. Because I took a picture and I told one of my roommates. I said, wrote Tree Of Life, a piece called Tree Of Life for a newspaper. And I wrote it. I couldn’t sleep. I was like, “Okay, something’s special about this piece that I’m writing.” And I told my roommate, just one, is going to get me noticed. And I was like, “This is the piece.” I was in the paper for a good three, four years already, so. But I was telling him, “This is the piece and I couldn’t sleep.” And I prayed on it because sometimes, you pray for the wrong things and you get them. So I was like, “Okay, God, let me pray for the right thing.” And it’s so crazy, that quick, a couple of days later, a person passed me. I was telling him about the paper and I was telling him I was in the news– he passed me a couple of times and the last time he said he’s going in, he went and in Trader Joe’–the restaurant, “I get the paper when I come out.” So he got the paper, and I guess he paid for the paper and left. And a couple of days later, he was looking for me. Everybody in Trader Joe’s is like, “Ron, the guy’s looking for you.” But I’m thinking, “Is this a regular customer?” But it’s the publisher. And he was– finally, I met with him. He was like, “Do you want to do a book? And you’re a genius.” I’m like, “Wow.” I was like, “Wow, thanks.” And I shook on it, and we got– and he was– because he read Tree of Life. It was days later after I prayed on it. Do you know what I mean? It was days later, I’ve got to pray on something. What are the odds of that?

JK: Yeah. And I understand, through the information that MJ [Tierney] gave you, was that the man who talked to you was the owner of a non-profit publishing company called Foundation Ipsen, and all the revenues go to you.

RD: Yeah, it does. Yeah, definitely. That was a great thing. Everything goes to me– went to me. He was a man of his word, that’s why– definitely, these guys are– they are a company of their word, and that’s why it’s– because when I was going through a lot of negativity, his word was his bond. In my mind I was like, “Wow.” We shook on it and everything came out. We got in, so. He was a man of his word, and that was good business.

JK: Have you always been a writer? Where does your inspiration for writing come from?

RD: I’ve always been a writer. Life– I guess, not playing video games, not being 6’5″, and just– I’ve been a writer, always.

JK: That’s great.

RD: I wrote all my life. I’ve been writing since a kid.

JK: So you’ve been doing a lot of writing, and practice makes perfect, doesn’t it?

RD: Yeah, definitely, definitely. Definitely.

JK: Great. And so, did you happen to bring one of your poems with us to share?

RD: Yeah, I brought a book. Yeah, I brought a book.

JK: Would you be willing to read your favorite poem for us from your book, The Science–My Science Project– excuse me?

RD: Oh, this is going to be good. My favorite piece, “Code of Science.”

JK: Great.

RD: “They say you were born with a number. You gonna to die with a number. It’s hard to live through the winter. Hard to survive through the summer. Any day can be the day when the clock stop ticking. My therapist died when he stopped paying attention. A murderer, a killer, prayed to God for his freedom. I guess he prayed so much one day they finally freed him. What is a brain without a heart? What is a heart without a brain? What is love without a stain? What is a loss without a gain? See, it’s a code, it’s a pattern with nature and balance. See, I was told I was slow and mentally challenged. I was told I would never accomplish a thing. I was told I would always amount to nothing. See zero is still a number on this lottery ticket. I mastered the code of science when I finally hit it. I guess God answered questions in mysterious ways. God, please, give me science for the rest of my days.” – Code of Science.

JK: Oh, my goodness. That’s beautiful. You’re very articulate, and I can tell that you’re resilient and optimistic, and analytical, and you are appreciative for what you have.

RD: Yeah, definitely. I appreciate that.

JK: That’s beautiful. And so I know MJ mentioned, and I know MJ mentioned, on her episode that one of the things that you value is not just the generosity of spirit to others, but you do appreciate giving to people. And MJ shared that when you got your stimulus check for the COVID relief, you offered any portion of that to MJ. Is that true?

RD: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I did. Because she showed me so much love. Like I say, we look out for each other. I will always tell people you don’t have to have a lot to look out for people. I try to tell the other vendors that too, that you have to look out for the people, too. You have to look out for the people because people love that. Yeah. You have to look out for the people, kind of…You show love to people because just– yeah. People show love. You guys show love back. I really appreciate her, too. That’s just love. Yeah. She showed me love, so, yeah, definitely.

JK: I’d like to share something that Jesus said that I ran across the other day and made me think of you. Luke 21:1-4. It says, “Jesus looked up. He saw the rich putting the gifts into the temple treasury. He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. He said, ‘Truly I tell you. This poor widow has put in more than the others. All these people gave gifts out of their wealth, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.'” I’ve been in fundraising for 15 years, and we focus a lot on the big gifts because that’s how people feel like we’re able to do the mission of our charity. And this podcast was created because there really needs to be the sense that we’re all part of this together. For example, Bill and Melinda Gates, who are the world’s biggest philanthropists by monetary standards, they couldn’t do their work without all of the people who are putting their time into executing what their money is able to do. So they need contributions at all giving levels to be able to give to education and poverty relief and equality. And so for you, to be able to give what you have is such a big contribution. And Jesus, one of the wisest and well-known men in history, said that when a poor man gives, it’s even more important than when a rich gives.

RD: You know, wow. That’s deep. That’s deep.

JK: Ron, I know you’re a man of faith, as am I. Can you tell me is Jesus the source of your inspiration for charity?

RD: Well, yeah. Yeah. I believe in God. That’s how I was raised, so I can’t deny that. That’s how I was raised. I was raised in the church. I was baptized. I was confirmed Catholic. I went to Catholic- so I’m a godly person. I believe in God. Yes. I will not say no. I’m going to believe in God. So, yes, definitely.

JK: Amen.

RD: That’s what keep me motivated, because I tell you might not know– you might not know. You might not see if I got the shades on but I’m praying with the shades. I might have on headphones, but I’m praying, so…

JK: Amen.

RD: Yeah, that’s what get me through, prayer, prayer. Because sometimes your mind can tell you the wrong information.

JK: Yes.

RD: It’s just like your heart. You got to follow your gut. So my gut is to stay positive, appreciate everything, and everybody then I want them to do the same for me. It take a village so it take everybody so that’s the thing. Trader Joe’s they teach you that. In that area, it’s a good– that’s why I say I love the area because people show you love and they don’t have to. That’s the thing. And when people show you love and they don’t have to, it’s like you don’t worry about who don’t show you love..

JK: Amen.

RD: –focus. Because people are already showing me love and they don’t have to, so I can’t really focus on the negatives, so yeah. That was deep.

JK: Thank you.

RD: I believe in God, so…

JK: It’s not my words.

RD: I’m a godly person, so…

JK: I’m glad I could share that with you. I’m glad I could remind you of how important it is what you’re doing. We’re talking with Ron Dudley, writer of My Science Project and the Streets Sense media newspaper. You’ve given us so much inspiration and shared so much about the kindness and value you put into your writing in sharing it with the world and how much a smile matters to everybody. And I’d like to have you help us inspire our listeners about what they can do with whatever they have in order to make a difference in the world.

RD: Just stick to it. No matter what, stick to it. Listen to your parents if you’re young. You have to listen to somebody. That’s the main thing. Listen. Because if you listen to people that’s telling you the right thing, you can’t go wrong. You know what I mean? Just like I said, never give up. Just know that anything is possible. Anything is possible. Anything is possible. Never give up. And like I said, because even homeless people, we might not have anything today but tomorrow, your life could change. The person standing next you– and I look at– also too, I look at people as they could be god, too. Everybody’s not the devil and you might be turning God down, so don’t turn God down. Don’t turn God down if you accepted the devil.

JK: That’s right.

RD: So yeah, that’s the main thing. And like I said, stay…like I said, pray. You have to have faith, definitely and the main thing is you have to try because if you don’t try, you won’t know. Even if you fail, it’s just failure. Okay, that’s going to make you think and strategize and be wiser but you have to have resilience. You have to be strong and you have to have faith. That’s the main– faith, faith. People want to say no faith. No, you need faith. Like I said, everybody don’t believe in God but I do, so. Yeah, I do.

JK: Yeah. And the question is if goodness doesn’t come from God, where does it come from?

RD: It comes from the heart. It comes from the mind. It comes from the people around you. It comes from somethings you just know. Somethings you just do. Somethings you’re just taught. It’s called right or wrong. It’s right or wrong. You don’t want to get stuck in middle. We’re human beings, but. I tell me there’s no in between. It’s good or evil. Which side are you going to take?

JK: Oh, that’s true. Yeah, haven’t thought about that.

RD: You want to think there’s middle. That’s what’s going to slow you down but you’re confused but you realized what goes up comes down. Yes or no? Right or wrong? Good or bad? Good or evil? I chose to do the positive thing and the right thing. Just being a positive person don’t get you where you want all the time. Sometimes the wrong people and the wrong things get ahead of you first but you got have the faith because that fake. Because God is real, so you can’t worry about what’s fake for too long. Can’t focus on– you just got to stay strong and focus in your faith and stay in your belief, so.

JK: And we talked about how we can learn our lessons when we do make those mistakes.

RD: Yeah, you can definitely.

JK: Well, Ron, I’ll be buying a book from you. I can’t wait to read it. I loved that you shared one of your poems with us. It was beautiful and I’m going to put in the show notes for our listeners to reach out to you by email to buy that book from you. And I’m so glad you were here today and shared with us your story and your passion and your gifts. Thank you for being here, Ron.

RD: Appreciate that. Take care.

JK: Take care.

RD: Peace.

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